Mohawk intiaanit
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Frank
Tämmöisen löysin koskien alkuperäisten cannibalismia
http://www.native-languages.org/iaq13.htm ja
http://www.rotten.com/library/death/cannibalism/
http://www.native-languages.org/iaq13.htm ja
http://www.rotten.com/library/death/cannibalism/
-
Frank
Inhoon copy/paste menetelmää pitkien juttujen kohalla mutta tää on ihan lukemisen arvoinen sikäli kun Tonkawat ja Cannibalismi kiinnostaa:
Cannibalism
[This text was originally published in 1907 by the Bureau of American Ethnology as part of its Handbook of American Indians North of Mexico . It was later reproduced, in 1913, by the Geographic Board of Canada. The work done by the American Bureau was monumental, well informed and incorporated the most advanced scholarship available at the time. In many respects, the information is still useful today, although prudence should be exercised and the reader should consult some of the contemporary texts on the history and the anthropology of the North American Indians suggested in the bibliographic introduction to this section. The articles were not completely devoid of the paternalism and the prejudices prevalent at the time. While some of the terminology used would not pass the test of our "politically correct" era, most terms have been left unchanged by the editor. If a change in the original text has been effected it will be found between brackets [.] The original work contained long bibliographies that have not been reproduced for this web edition. For the full citation, see the end of the text.]
[To Europeans of the early Modern period, nothing was more shocking than reports of cannibalism among Amerindians. More than anything else, these reports justified the tag of " savages " that Europeans used to describe North American natives and compelled Europeans to "civilize" them, to teach them "proper" ways and beliefs. Few were like Montaigne who was able to see the foibles in his own culture and, therefore, to judge in a more benign way the culture of others. The text below makes an attempt to put the issue of cannibalism into proper perspective and contains an interesting discussion of the subject. Please complete the examination of this issue by reading the article on cannibalism at the Wikipedia Encyclopedia and the articles in the National Review by John Miller and Martin Gardner in the Skeptical Inquirer .]
In one form or another cannibalism has been practised among probably all peoples at some period of their tribal life. In America there are numerous recorded references to its occurrence within historic times among the Brazilians, Carib of northern South America , the Aztec and other Mexican tribes, and among many of the Indians N. of Mexico. The word itself, now more commonly used than the older term anthropophagy, is derived from Carib through Spanish corruption. Restricting treatment of the subject to the tribes N. of Mexico, many evidences of cannibalism in some form are found - from the ingestion, perhaps obligatory, of small quantities of human flesh, blood, brain, or marrow, as a matter of ceremony, to the consumption of such parts for food under stress of hunger, or even as a matter of taste. Among the tribes which practised it, in one or another of these forms, may be mentioned the Montagnais, and some of the tribes of Maine; the Algonkin, Armouchiquois, Micmac, and Iroquois; farther w. the Assiniboin, Cree, Foxes, Miami, Ottawa, Chippewa, Illinois, Kickapoo, Sioux, and Winnebago; in the S. the people who built the mounds in Florida, and the Tonkawa, Attacapa, Karankawa, Kiowa, Caddo, and Comanche (?); in the N. W. and W, portions of the continent, the Thlingchadinneh and other Athapascan tribes, the Tlingit, Heiltsuk, Kwakiutl, Tsimshian, Nootka, Siksika, some of the Californian tribes, and the Ute. There is also a tradition of the practice among the Hopi, and allusions to the custom among other tribes of Arizona and New Mexico . The Mohawk, and the Attacapa, Tonkawa, and other Texas tribes were known to their neighbours as "man-eaters."
Taking all the evidence into consideration, it appears that cannibalism N. of the Mexican boundary existed in two chief forms. One of these was accidental, from necessity as a result of famine, and has been witnessed among the Huron, Micmac, Chippewa, Etchareottine, and others. In most of such instances recourse was had to the bodies of those who had recently died, but cases are recorded in which individuals were killed to satisfy hunger. The second and prevalent form of cannibalism was a part of war custom and was based principally on the belief that bravery and other desirable qualities of an enemy would pass, through actual ingestion of a part of his body, into that of the consumer. Such qualities were supposed to have their special seat in the heart, hence this organ was chiefly sought, though blood, brain, marrow, and flesh were in many instances also swallowed. The parts were eaten either raw or cooked. The heart belonged usually to the warriors, but other parts were occasionally consumed by boys or even by women and children. In some cases a small portion of the heart or of some other part of an enemy might be eaten in order to free the eater from some tabu (Grinnell). The idea of eating any other human being than a brave enemy was to most Indians repulsive. One of the means of torture among the Indians of Canada and New York was the forcing of a prisoner to swallow pieces of his own flesh.
Among the Iroquois, according to one of the Jesuit fathers, the eating of captives was considered a religious duty. Among the Heiltsuk, and recently among the Taimshian and Kwalciutl, cannibalism formed a part of one of their ceremonies. Several instances are recorded in which cannibalism was indulged in by individuals while in a frenzied state. Finally, it seems that among a few tribes, as the Tonkawa, Iroquois, and others, man-eating, though still with captives as the victims, was practised on a larger scale, and with the acquired taste for human flesh as one, if not the chief, incentive; yet the Tonkawa, as well as some men long associated with them, declared that the eating of human flesh by them was only ceremonial.
Indian mythology and beliefs are replete with references to man-eating, giants, monsters, and deities, which point to the possibility that anthropophagy in some form was a practice with which the aborigines have long been acquainted.
Source: James WHITE, ed., Handbook of Indians of Canada , Published as an Appendix to the Tenth Report of the Geographic Board of Canada , Ottawa , 1913, 632p., pp. 77-78.
Sitten ettei juttu ois liian lyhyt niin tässä Katolisen Kirkon näkemystä Tonkawa hepuista, oleellisin kohta läskinnetyllä fontilla:
Tonkawa Indians
A tribal group or confederacy, of low culture status and constituting a distinct linguistic stock, formerly ranging about the middle Trinity and Colorado Rivers, in Eastern Texas, and now represented by a single rapidly dwindling remnant of about forty souls. They may have numbered originally 2000 souls, including the Tonkawa proper, the Yojuane, Mayeye, Ervipiame, and others. The origin and meaning of the name Tonkawa are unknown. they call themselves Titskan-watich, "natives". They were inveterate rovers, planting nothing, but subsisting entirely by the buffalo and other game, the fruit of the mesquite and cactus, and wild roots. They dwelt in buffalo skin tipis or brushwood shelters, were notable horsemen, and carried the bow, spear, shield, with the usual headdress of feathered cap and buffalo horns on ceremonial occasions. They were superior hunters and brave and active warriors, but were hated by all the neighbouring tribes by reason of their cannibal habit, on account of which they were universally known among the other Indians as the "Man Eaters". Of their cannibal practices there is abundant record and it is this propensity which led to their outlawry and final destruction. Almost nothing is known of their myths and ritual, beyond the fact that they had a Wolf Dance and claimed the wolf as an ancestor. They were also leaders in the ritual cult of the peyote, a cactus eaten with ceremonial accompaniment to produce waking visions.
The Tonkawa are first mentioned by name in a Spanish document of 1691. In 1719 they first became known to the French through La Haye's expedition into what is now Eastern Oklahoma. In response to their request, the Franciscan Father Francisco Ano de los Dolores in 1748 established for their benefit the Mission of San Francisco Xavier de Horcasitas on San Xavier (now San Gabriel) River, about nine miles northwest of the present Rockdale Nilamco, Texas. Shortly afterward the Tonkawa together with other tribes of Central Texas, were greatly wasted by a smallpox epidemic. The mission also suffered from the attacks of the Lipan Apache, in consequence of which and another epidemic most of the inmates were removed to a mission on Guadalupe River about 1755. Another band of the same connection, the Ervipiame, established on request of their chief in the Mission of San Francisco-Xavier de Náxera on San Antonio River in 1722, had later been consolidated with the larger body at the second San Xavier. With the decline and abandonment of the Texas missions, 1790-1800, the mission Indians for the most part rejoined their tribes and relapsed into barbarism. In 1778 the Tonkawa were still estimated at about 1200 souls, but another smallpox epidemic immediately thereafter cut them down one-half. In 1855 the Government settled them, with several other tribes, on a reservation on the Clear Fork of the Brazos River, but in consequence of the opposition of the Texans it was found necessary to remove them in 1857 to a new reservation on Washita River, Oklahoma, the Tonkawa camp being just above the present Anadarko. Taking advantage of the confusion of the Civil War, a combination of the neighbouring tribes--who had a hatred toward the Tonkawa on account of the cannibalism and their activity as scouts for the troops--surprised the Tonkawa camp in a night attack, 25 October, 1862, killing 137 out of a total of 305. they never recovered from this blow. After years as refugees about Fort Griffin, Texas, under military protection, the remnant numbering only 90, were gathered together in 1884 and again removed to a small reservation in Oklahoma, near the present Ponca. They are now citizens, with lands allotted in severalty. Our knowledge of the Tonkawa language is based chiefly on Gatschet's studies of manuscript material with the Bureau of American Ethnology.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14778a.htm
...molemmissa puhutaan ainakin siitä että vahvoja epäilyjä asian tiimoilta oli. Mutta toisaalta, söihän Saksalaiset ja Ryssätkin toisiaan maailmansotien aikaan että ei se "niiiin" vakavaa ollu
.
Cannibalism
[This text was originally published in 1907 by the Bureau of American Ethnology as part of its Handbook of American Indians North of Mexico . It was later reproduced, in 1913, by the Geographic Board of Canada. The work done by the American Bureau was monumental, well informed and incorporated the most advanced scholarship available at the time. In many respects, the information is still useful today, although prudence should be exercised and the reader should consult some of the contemporary texts on the history and the anthropology of the North American Indians suggested in the bibliographic introduction to this section. The articles were not completely devoid of the paternalism and the prejudices prevalent at the time. While some of the terminology used would not pass the test of our "politically correct" era, most terms have been left unchanged by the editor. If a change in the original text has been effected it will be found between brackets [.] The original work contained long bibliographies that have not been reproduced for this web edition. For the full citation, see the end of the text.]
[To Europeans of the early Modern period, nothing was more shocking than reports of cannibalism among Amerindians. More than anything else, these reports justified the tag of " savages " that Europeans used to describe North American natives and compelled Europeans to "civilize" them, to teach them "proper" ways and beliefs. Few were like Montaigne who was able to see the foibles in his own culture and, therefore, to judge in a more benign way the culture of others. The text below makes an attempt to put the issue of cannibalism into proper perspective and contains an interesting discussion of the subject. Please complete the examination of this issue by reading the article on cannibalism at the Wikipedia Encyclopedia and the articles in the National Review by John Miller and Martin Gardner in the Skeptical Inquirer .]
In one form or another cannibalism has been practised among probably all peoples at some period of their tribal life. In America there are numerous recorded references to its occurrence within historic times among the Brazilians, Carib of northern South America , the Aztec and other Mexican tribes, and among many of the Indians N. of Mexico. The word itself, now more commonly used than the older term anthropophagy, is derived from Carib through Spanish corruption. Restricting treatment of the subject to the tribes N. of Mexico, many evidences of cannibalism in some form are found - from the ingestion, perhaps obligatory, of small quantities of human flesh, blood, brain, or marrow, as a matter of ceremony, to the consumption of such parts for food under stress of hunger, or even as a matter of taste. Among the tribes which practised it, in one or another of these forms, may be mentioned the Montagnais, and some of the tribes of Maine; the Algonkin, Armouchiquois, Micmac, and Iroquois; farther w. the Assiniboin, Cree, Foxes, Miami, Ottawa, Chippewa, Illinois, Kickapoo, Sioux, and Winnebago; in the S. the people who built the mounds in Florida, and the Tonkawa, Attacapa, Karankawa, Kiowa, Caddo, and Comanche (?); in the N. W. and W, portions of the continent, the Thlingchadinneh and other Athapascan tribes, the Tlingit, Heiltsuk, Kwakiutl, Tsimshian, Nootka, Siksika, some of the Californian tribes, and the Ute. There is also a tradition of the practice among the Hopi, and allusions to the custom among other tribes of Arizona and New Mexico . The Mohawk, and the Attacapa, Tonkawa, and other Texas tribes were known to their neighbours as "man-eaters."
Taking all the evidence into consideration, it appears that cannibalism N. of the Mexican boundary existed in two chief forms. One of these was accidental, from necessity as a result of famine, and has been witnessed among the Huron, Micmac, Chippewa, Etchareottine, and others. In most of such instances recourse was had to the bodies of those who had recently died, but cases are recorded in which individuals were killed to satisfy hunger. The second and prevalent form of cannibalism was a part of war custom and was based principally on the belief that bravery and other desirable qualities of an enemy would pass, through actual ingestion of a part of his body, into that of the consumer. Such qualities were supposed to have their special seat in the heart, hence this organ was chiefly sought, though blood, brain, marrow, and flesh were in many instances also swallowed. The parts were eaten either raw or cooked. The heart belonged usually to the warriors, but other parts were occasionally consumed by boys or even by women and children. In some cases a small portion of the heart or of some other part of an enemy might be eaten in order to free the eater from some tabu (Grinnell). The idea of eating any other human being than a brave enemy was to most Indians repulsive. One of the means of torture among the Indians of Canada and New York was the forcing of a prisoner to swallow pieces of his own flesh.
Among the Iroquois, according to one of the Jesuit fathers, the eating of captives was considered a religious duty. Among the Heiltsuk, and recently among the Taimshian and Kwalciutl, cannibalism formed a part of one of their ceremonies. Several instances are recorded in which cannibalism was indulged in by individuals while in a frenzied state. Finally, it seems that among a few tribes, as the Tonkawa, Iroquois, and others, man-eating, though still with captives as the victims, was practised on a larger scale, and with the acquired taste for human flesh as one, if not the chief, incentive; yet the Tonkawa, as well as some men long associated with them, declared that the eating of human flesh by them was only ceremonial.
Indian mythology and beliefs are replete with references to man-eating, giants, monsters, and deities, which point to the possibility that anthropophagy in some form was a practice with which the aborigines have long been acquainted.
Source: James WHITE, ed., Handbook of Indians of Canada , Published as an Appendix to the Tenth Report of the Geographic Board of Canada , Ottawa , 1913, 632p., pp. 77-78.
Sitten ettei juttu ois liian lyhyt niin tässä Katolisen Kirkon näkemystä Tonkawa hepuista, oleellisin kohta läskinnetyllä fontilla:
Tonkawa Indians
A tribal group or confederacy, of low culture status and constituting a distinct linguistic stock, formerly ranging about the middle Trinity and Colorado Rivers, in Eastern Texas, and now represented by a single rapidly dwindling remnant of about forty souls. They may have numbered originally 2000 souls, including the Tonkawa proper, the Yojuane, Mayeye, Ervipiame, and others. The origin and meaning of the name Tonkawa are unknown. they call themselves Titskan-watich, "natives". They were inveterate rovers, planting nothing, but subsisting entirely by the buffalo and other game, the fruit of the mesquite and cactus, and wild roots. They dwelt in buffalo skin tipis or brushwood shelters, were notable horsemen, and carried the bow, spear, shield, with the usual headdress of feathered cap and buffalo horns on ceremonial occasions. They were superior hunters and brave and active warriors, but were hated by all the neighbouring tribes by reason of their cannibal habit, on account of which they were universally known among the other Indians as the "Man Eaters". Of their cannibal practices there is abundant record and it is this propensity which led to their outlawry and final destruction. Almost nothing is known of their myths and ritual, beyond the fact that they had a Wolf Dance and claimed the wolf as an ancestor. They were also leaders in the ritual cult of the peyote, a cactus eaten with ceremonial accompaniment to produce waking visions.
The Tonkawa are first mentioned by name in a Spanish document of 1691. In 1719 they first became known to the French through La Haye's expedition into what is now Eastern Oklahoma. In response to their request, the Franciscan Father Francisco Ano de los Dolores in 1748 established for their benefit the Mission of San Francisco Xavier de Horcasitas on San Xavier (now San Gabriel) River, about nine miles northwest of the present Rockdale Nilamco, Texas. Shortly afterward the Tonkawa together with other tribes of Central Texas, were greatly wasted by a smallpox epidemic. The mission also suffered from the attacks of the Lipan Apache, in consequence of which and another epidemic most of the inmates were removed to a mission on Guadalupe River about 1755. Another band of the same connection, the Ervipiame, established on request of their chief in the Mission of San Francisco-Xavier de Náxera on San Antonio River in 1722, had later been consolidated with the larger body at the second San Xavier. With the decline and abandonment of the Texas missions, 1790-1800, the mission Indians for the most part rejoined their tribes and relapsed into barbarism. In 1778 the Tonkawa were still estimated at about 1200 souls, but another smallpox epidemic immediately thereafter cut them down one-half. In 1855 the Government settled them, with several other tribes, on a reservation on the Clear Fork of the Brazos River, but in consequence of the opposition of the Texans it was found necessary to remove them in 1857 to a new reservation on Washita River, Oklahoma, the Tonkawa camp being just above the present Anadarko. Taking advantage of the confusion of the Civil War, a combination of the neighbouring tribes--who had a hatred toward the Tonkawa on account of the cannibalism and their activity as scouts for the troops--surprised the Tonkawa camp in a night attack, 25 October, 1862, killing 137 out of a total of 305. they never recovered from this blow. After years as refugees about Fort Griffin, Texas, under military protection, the remnant numbering only 90, were gathered together in 1884 and again removed to a small reservation in Oklahoma, near the present Ponca. They are now citizens, with lands allotted in severalty. Our knowledge of the Tonkawa language is based chiefly on Gatschet's studies of manuscript material with the Bureau of American Ethnology.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14778a.htm
...molemmissa puhutaan ainakin siitä että vahvoja epäilyjä asian tiimoilta oli. Mutta toisaalta, söihän Saksalaiset ja Ryssätkin toisiaan maailmansotien aikaan että ei se "niiiin" vakavaa ollu
.-
Frank
En lähtis ihan suorilta käsiltä luottamaan mihinkään Rotten.comien kirjotuksiin. On hyvä olla aina alaviitteinä noi lähdeluettelot ja vähän perustelua ja selostusta et mihin jutut perustuu. Eli onko asiaa tutkinut ja kirjoittanut kenties joku proffa vaiko joku Kansasilainen YH jolla ei ollut sinä päivänä muuta tekemistä. Tuli vaan mieleen tosta Rotten.comista koska oon sielt joskus lukenu jotain juttuja ja siel jossain kerrottiin mm. ufojen kidnappauksista ja vampyyreistäkin...Dakota kirjoitti:Tämmöisen löysin koskien alkuperäisten cannibalismia
http://www.native-languages.org/iaq13.htm ja
http://www.rotten.com/library/death/cannibalism/
...kuvaan viitaten, I rest my case
ja lähden ulkoilemaan... aurinkoki paistaa ja mä tääl ihmettelen cannibalismia... 
-
Simo Hankaniemi
- Viestit: 957
- Liittynyt: Pe 09.03.2007 05:43
Comancheilla ainakin oli "varma tieto" tonkawien kannibalismista. Muistaakseni valkoinen comanche Herman Lehmann kirjoittaa jostakin tapauksesta, jossa tonkawat olisivat pistelleet poskeensa comanchea ja nämä kostivat sen rajulla hyökkäyksellä, missä myös Lehmann taisteli soturin ominaisuudessa. Tonkawat heitettiin isoon nuotioon, osa vielä eli.Wequashim kirjoitti:Kuinka varma tieto on tuo tonkawoiden kannibalismi tai pikemminkin sen yleisyydestä? Onko tarinat lähinnä ulkopuolisten värittämiä?
Voiskos tästä Lehmannista tarinoida hiukan yksityiskohtaisemmin lisää?
-D-
Takunl iciyunga wacin
Northern Cree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mQ9AFPKMn0
"ma wee bonnie lassie" XD
Takunl iciyunga wacin
Northern Cree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mQ9AFPKMn0
"ma wee bonnie lassie" XD
-
Frank
-
Simo Hankaniemi
- Viestit: 957
- Liittynyt: Pe 09.03.2007 05:43
Lehmann on onneksi kirjoittanut oikein kirjankin kokemuksistaan, mutta en ole vielä saanut sitä käsiini. Tietoni perustuvat muiden kirjoittajien Lehmann-lainauksiin. Joten tiedän vain pääpiirteet, eli Lehmann oli aluksi apachien parissa, mutta joutui poistumaan kuvioista tapettuaan jonkun toisen apachen riidan seurauksena. Lehmann oli tässä vaiheessa vain 15-vuotias. Hän eleli jonkin aikaa yksikseen, kunnes sattui havaitsemaan pienen comanche-soturijoukon leirin. Herman hiipi lähemmäksi tarkkailemaan tapahtumia ja sai comancheista positiivisen kuvan. Näillä näytti olevan hauskaa, päinvastoin kuin Hermannilla. Hän päätti ottaa riskin ja astui esiin. Comanchet hyväksyivät hänet porukkaansa ja niin alkoi uusi elämä. Comanchena hän sitten pysyikin lopun ikäänsä, 1900-luvun alkuvuosiin saakka.Dakota kirjoitti:Voiskos tästä Lehmannista tarinoida hiukan yksityiskohtaisemmin lisää?
Aaaa, mietiskelin juuri mitä kaverille tapahtui myöhemmin, mutta vaihtoikin vain kuppikuntaa.
-D-
Takunl iciyunga wacin
Northern Cree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mQ9AFPKMn0
"ma wee bonnie lassie" XD
Takunl iciyunga wacin
Northern Cree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mQ9AFPKMn0
"ma wee bonnie lassie" XD
Viasat, explorer esittää juuri Brittiläisen dokumentin jossa kaksi tutkijaa matkaa läpi cannibalien maan, Indonesian, Uusi Guinean.. Dokumentti on 6v vanha, mutta siellä ne popsivat vihollisiaan surutta
-D-
Takunl iciyunga wacin
Northern Cree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mQ9AFPKMn0
"ma wee bonnie lassie" XD
Takunl iciyunga wacin
Northern Cree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mQ9AFPKMn0
"ma wee bonnie lassie" XD
-
Frank
No varmana löytyy moisia, sekun vaan aina jaksaa säväyttää hyvinvointi valtiossa elelevää henkilöä. Oli kavereilla aika kähäkät systeemit
http://www.tellmewhereonearth.com/image ... OPHOTO.jpg
http://www.tellmewhereonearth.com/image ... OPHOTO.jpg
-D-
Takunl iciyunga wacin
Northern Cree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mQ9AFPKMn0
"ma wee bonnie lassie" XD
Takunl iciyunga wacin
Northern Cree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mQ9AFPKMn0
"ma wee bonnie lassie" XD
-
Frank
